Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/16/1996 08:15 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 447 - CAN'T CLOSE LAND TO TRADITIONAL REC. USES CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN announced that the committee would take testimony on HB 447 but could not take action without a quorum. Number 070 REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK thanked Representative Scott Ogan for chairing the subcommittee on HB 447. She said she had reviewed the proposed committee substitute and is comfortable with the changes. She said the companion bill in the Senate, SB 230, had received tremendous support there. Number 286 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN discussed the changes in HB 447: (1) New title to reflect changes in the bill. (2) Section 1, adds intent language to assure nothing in the bill affects private property interests. (3) Section 3, lines 13 - 16, provides for reasonable alternatives for access when conflict occurs. Lines 23, 24, 27 add new means of access and new activities covered in bill. (4) New Section 4, establishes authority for development interests to control access across leased areas when a reasonable alternative is not available to go around it. Number 535 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES noted that there is an exception for the development of natural resources. He speculated supposing that a commissioner wanted to develop a park or a nature trail with a pull out along side of a highway. He asked if the language in CSHB 447 prohibits the commissioner from doing that and also not allowing motorized vehicles on the nature trail. DAVID STANCLIFF, Legislative Staff to Representative Beverly Masek, responded that it does not. CSHB 477 purposefully stayed out of Title 41 authority which is the park authority. This is Title 38, which are general lands where either you have access for traditional recreational activities or development such as mining, timber and land disposals. Number 626 REPRESENTATIVE DON LONG referred to the language in Section 3, subsection (3) hunting, fishing, trapping, harvest of natural foodstuffs and said that he did not consider any of those to mean "traditional recreational activities." He said he prefers the language "traditional outdoor activities" and would like to offer an amendment. Number 692 MR. STANCLIFF responded that Representative Long's suggested language change would be considered a friendly or technical amendment if the language were changed from "traditional recreational activities" to "traditional outdoor activities" throughout the bill. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated to Representative Long that in lieu of a quorum, the committee would continue to hear comments but would be unable to take action on the proposed amendment at this time. REPRESENTATIVE LONG said that the proposed amendment would take care of his concerns. Number 814 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that one other issue was discussed in the subcommittee meeting. Representative Irene Nicholia had recommended the exclusion of "air boats." He said he felt that was a controlled use area and should be regulated by the Department of Fish and Game as a resource problem. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN referred to the February 15 letter from Steven Borell, Alaska Miners Association, requesting a new subsection in Section 2, (d)(3), by adding "required for protection of public safety." Number 963 MR. STANCLIFF said if the Alaska Miners Association amendment is adopted and it pertains specifically to conflicts with development, that would be considered a friendly amendment. If the amendment is broadened to public safety reasons for the entire concept of the bill, then it creates a loophole for administrative regulators. Number 1054 BEVERLY NESTER testified from Fairbanks stating that public access to and use of public lands, waterways and right-of-ways have often been hindered by interagency battles over authority and (indisc.) existence of right-of-ways. While one agency may recognize right- of-ways such as section lines, another may not. Many public lands are landlocked by privately owned land, Native lands, or reserved public lands such as state parks and do not allow access through their boundaries. Some valid existing trails have through bureaucratic decree have been changed to single use only, thus depriving the general public of access. As a result, public lands become the dominion of a select few. The key to unlocking the door for public use or public lands is access. HB 447 appears to be a step in the right direction. She stated that with the passage of this bill, all state agencies with jurisdiction over public land, waterways and right-of-ways could establish a clear policy and procedure providing for local access to and within public lands. Public lands without access are not public. Number 1165 JOHN LITTEN testified from Sitka stating that he is an operator of a small tourism business, and on a day-to-day basis, his company requires access to public land. He said HB 447 is helpful to all Alaskans and it will provide continual access to public lands for traditional activities. He said his concern about the bill is that it falls short of achieving ultimate goals for tourism uses but it is a step in the right direction. Number 1271 RON SWANSON, Deputy Director, Division of Lands, Department of Natural Resources, said he did not have a copy of the committee substitute and would appreciate a chance to review it. Number 1293 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Swanson if he had heard the exchange between himself and Mr. Stancliff about whether CSHB 447 prohibits the commissioner from developing a park or a nature trail with a pull out along side of a highway and bans motorized vehicles on the nature trail. MR. SWANSON replied that he would have to review the committee substitute before responding to the question. Number 1343 DON SHERWOOD, Vice Chairman, Susitna Basin Recreational River Management Plan, a civilian advisory committee, testified in support of HB 447. He said it is time that we stopped the inroads of the "big green machine" restricting our access and recommended that the Department of Fish and Game and the Board of Game be included in the bill. He said he was in complete agreement with Representative Long's amendment to delete "traditional recreational activities" and insert "traditional outdoor activities." CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked that the record reflect the presence of committee members Representatives Davies, Long, Ogan and Green. Number 1496 TOM STARR, President, Mat-Su Motor Mushers Snowmobile Group, testified in support of HB 447 saying that these areas need to be further established and designated. KEN RIVARD testified on behalf of the Alaska Airmen's Association and the Mat-Su Aircraft Owners Association in support of HB 447. He felt that HB 447 should also encompass Title 16 because Fish and Game regulations restrict motorized vehicles in many areas. He referred to Title 41, Section 23, as having a lot of restrictions on float planes. He expressed frustration in dealing with the Department of Natural Resources concerning the Deshka River. Number 1784 ROD ARNO, President, Alaska Outdoor Council, stated that the council applauds Representative Masek and her staff for the introduction of HB 447. He said the council supports this bill because access to public land for traditional outdoor uses is of great interest to the Outdoor Council. He said that special interest groups, in this case the Alaska Visitors Association, as stated in "Destination Alaska," is determining what they consider to be primary tourism zones without public input. JIM STRATTON, Director, Division of Parks, Department of Natural Resources stated that his participation was just to listen to the witnesses. Number 1840 CLIFF EAMES, Alaska Center for the Environment, testified that the center is concerned with the level of management that HB 447 would involve the legislature in. The present administrative process is entirely adequate with regard to both public participation and opportunities for fine tuning some fairly difficult and complex issues. We think that these matters are best dealt with at the administrative level. He felt that the thrust of the bill prevents the Division of Lands from attempting to manage motorized vehicles. MR. EAMES stated that the center believes that there is a very serious question of fundamental fairness here and that is the state is not providing adequate opportunities for people who enjoy quiet recreational sports. "We believe that this is a gross imbalance, it is greatly unfair and unequitable and it needs to be resolved. We have been urging the Division of Lands and the Division of Parks, for years, to redress this imbalance. So far without success. This bill will make it even more difficult to provide some opportunities for quiet recreation. I am not sure what the Alaska Visitors Association will be saying today, but I would point out that there a lot of tourism operators who do not feel that they are adequately represented by the AVA who rely on wild areas, wild quiet areas to make their living. They are very poorly provided for on state lands." Tina Lindgren, Executive Director, Alaska Visitors Association, testified that over 600 members statewide make up the association. She said the association relies heavily on public lands in Alaska in order to accommodate people who cater to the visitor industry. There is also tremendous pressure to restrict access for commercial purposes of all kinds throughout the state. We believe that it is essential that visitors be allowed to visit public lands and do those things such as hiking with a guide. We support the premise of HB 447 which is to protect recreational access to state land. She responded that Mr. Arno misinterpreted "Destination Alaska," the AVA did not establish any zones. It was a recommendation made by the report. GARY MARIAN, Vice President, Alaska Boaters Association, and member of the Alaska Outdoor Council testified stating that he should urge the committee to go against this bill, but he felt that a temporary commissioner should not have the right to close access. He urged the committee to pass HB 447 stating that he did not feel that any individual should have the right to close access to our public lands. Number 2131 MICK MANNS, representing Paradise Valley Mining, the miners from the Wiseman, Coldfoot and Bettles areas, and the recreational dog mushers and snowmachiners in the area, urged the passage of HB 447. He said Section A of the Alaska Constitution reads, "the lessee has the right to control trespass" and the UCC code adopted by the state of Alaska reads, "a landlord who retains complete control over an area also retains liability." He recommended the inclusion of a no trespass provision for snowmachiners, dog mushers and other people using those areas to stay out of the designated area. Number 2230 MR. STANCLIFF commented that Mr. Manns may not have a copy of the committee substitute. Page 3, lines 7 and 8 says that the lessee may control and direct access across the development parcels. Number 2277 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN reiterated that the committee could not take action on CSHB 447 due to a lack of quorum. He expressed appreciation to the sponsor and the subcommittee for their work on the committee substitute.
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